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Post by tomlory on Sept 22, 2022 20:32:30 GMT
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Post by tomlory on Sept 22, 2022 20:48:33 GMT
I woke up this morning to this news  . Amazingly, almost a year ago Internet nailed the outer packaging and the existence of these but it seemed like a hoax. Available now directly from Logitech. 11 Nm, superior to Fanatec CSL DD wheel to base interface and quick release, dual analog paddles, magnetic shifter paddes, angled properly to mounting to a horizontal (my) rig surface, 300mm rim with 11 buttons, a joystick thingy and two rotary selectors, same base mounting pattern as G25-929. Forced air cooling. Logitech's TrueForce haptic feedback might elevate this one above what is possible from every other current DD wheel. Its bulkiness could be a deal breaker for those with triples positioned very close to the base but for me that's not and issue with my 45" flat panel. Someday I may go to a curved monitor which I expect would be fine, too. I'd prefer a completely round rim but FWIW the Fanatec rim that was on my wish list is flat bottom too. I'm waiting to see what Thrustmaster come up with but it looks like Christmas will be good this year one wheel or another. |
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Post by mikec1 on Sept 23, 2022 1:32:27 GMT
Wow that does look interesting.
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Post by tomlory on Sept 23, 2022 6:17:57 GMT
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Post by K Juliot on Sept 24, 2022 16:19:00 GMT
Watched the review video. Pretty interesting unit, I guess if you consider it comes with the rim unlike other high end DD drives it's not overpriced for what you get.
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Post by tomlory on Sept 25, 2022 7:05:52 GMT
To me not buying anything from a Chinese company is priceless and the difference here is maybe $200 on a 5+ year item.
I'm probably going to double down on LOGI stock at some point in part because of how they seem to have executed this wheel.
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Post by tomlory on Sept 27, 2022 7:21:02 GMT
Here's a peek into the TrueForce parameters that are already in iRacing:
[TrueForce]
enableTrueForceVibe=0 ; Enable vibrations in Logitech TrueForce wheels
loadTrueForceAPI=0 ; Enable TrueForce API in Logitech TrueForce wheels
trueForceDamperPct=0.050000 ; Add a bit of internal damping to the wheel.
trueForceVibePhysics=1 ; 1 - use physics to generate vibrations, 0 - use game audio with Logitech TrueForce wheels
volTrueForceMaster_dB=-5.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the TrueForce vibration effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysCarBodyAccel_dB=0.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the car body acceleration TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysDriveShaft_dB=0.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the drive shaft TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysEngineRPM_dB=-17.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the engine rpm TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysGearChange_dB=0.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the gear change TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysRevLimit_dB=-5.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the rev limit TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysRoadTexture_dB=0.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the road texture TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysRumbleStrip_dB=-3.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the rumble strip TrueForce effects, in Decibels
volTrueForcePhysWheelSlip_dB=0.000000 ; How much to duck or raise volume of the wheel slip TrueForce effects, in Decibels
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Post by tomlory on Oct 31, 2022 3:19:31 GMT
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Post by tomlory on Nov 1, 2022 19:34:12 GMT
edited 2024-01-26 02:48 UTC
Logitech G Pro ($999 + tax)
Cons:
unknown future "eco system"
Pros:
dual paddle shifters (momentary + analog)
superior to Fanatec QR the QR is super solid, stiff, zero play with the wheel fitted, low effort and smooth to R&R
it's impossible that TrueForce can't be tweaked to add to the feel at the wheel
well reviewed, gripes are overall size / footprint, wheel rim shape, price
clockspring solution to communicate wheel controls with base, just like real cars. No transmitter nor receiver (Bluetooth, wifi) to fail but does leave the possibility for wear and tear failure. The vehicles that I drive most are 33 and 27 years old with over 500,000 miles between the two of them and with zero mystery maladies over the 37 combined years that I've owned them which contrasts with my newest vehicle which has had me spending almost as much time solving check engine light (CEL, MIL) complaints as I've spent driving it. Simpler is better.
quantity and placement of buttons. 15 push momentary plus 2 rotary encoders plus a 4 or 8-way joystick thingy.
300mm diameter feels great to me
customer service
Neutral:
QR system MOZA has raised the bar, current Thrustmaster is the worst, Fanatec QR1 is not great, Logitech better than Fanatec no complaints that I've found
D shaped wheel rim with no current alternatives
Easiest mounting for me
Readily available
I'm coming around a little on the flat bottom wheel having only used round rims. I can imagine a flat bottom making it impossible to get lost with where you are in the rotation. How many times have we ended up in the grass with the wheel center 180 degrees from TDC and using the wrong shifter paddle?
Price? The MOZA makes it seem a little expensive, Fanatec cost makes it seem to be on par for a ready to race DD solution.
Logitech have evidently thought this through obviously knowing what the competition currently offers. Accordingly, there should be other rims and accessories coming. In one review made by a long-time Logitech user and current RL racer and RL coach and sim racing coach there "will be" other wheel rims.
Logitech isn't going anywhere short of an armageddon-like event
Logitech market cap = $8.96 billion ($8960 million)
Guillemot Corporation (Thrustmaster) = $192 million
Endor (Fanatec) market cap = $158 million
Gudsen Moza is privately held
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Post by tomlory on Nov 2, 2022 17:31:52 GMT
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Post by tomlory on Nov 12, 2022 23:56:48 GMT
I ordered a Logitech G Pro today, 15% off with a code either SIGNUP FIRST or DRLUPO (this appears on the order confirmation but that one was supposed to be only 10% off).
In the unlikely event that Thrustmaster release something incredible next week, I have documented free return on the Logitech wheel.
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Post by tomlory on Nov 13, 2022 0:28:11 GMT
Actually, the 15% off may have been for registering for Logitech's site. If so, according to customer service, I could have held off for 30 days but I didn't know, whether because I overlooked it, forgot or it wasn't revealed.
I initially had an issue with the order placement repeatedly failing despite accurate and complete information entered by me. That was followed by a message from my bank regarding the ~$922 transaction. Customer service chat was available Saturday afternoon. There was some lack of understanding but that smoothed out and I ended up with an intelligent response in less than 30 minutes overall which seems to be far superior to what users get from Fanatec (for comparison fwiw). I hadn't been using that particular credit card much other than bills so the transaction was flagged as suspicious; the order problem was caused by my bank not Logitech.
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Post by tomlory on Nov 14, 2022 1:25:39 GMT
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Post by mikec1 on Nov 14, 2022 2:55:14 GMT
Damn that's expensive just for a wheel. I think I'll search for a proper set of pedals with load cells. My wheel is only a few years old & does the job. I am eager to hear your review on it once you get it though.
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Post by tomlory on Nov 14, 2022 3:00:18 GMT
About $100 more than the Moza R9 with the CS wheel IIRC, $150T less than Simagic Alpha Mini, $240T less than Fanatec CSL DD Pro; $150T discount very much changes the equation.
I figure that I have till Black Friday to decide on pedals (holding out for a discount and my current wheel is the larger of my actual problems) but if the Fanatec CSL Elite V2s hadn't been released I would have been content with the CSL LCs.
I shot down the Logitech Pro pedals for some reason in addition to being ~$100 more than the Fanatec CSL Elite V2s, I can't remember exactly what it was.
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Post by tomlory on Nov 14, 2022 3:33:50 GMT
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Post by tomlory on Nov 17, 2022 15:54:47 GMT
The Thrustmaster T818 reveal sealed the deal for me, the G Pro is a keeper when it arrives next week.
Now I need to decide on and order a pedal set.
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Post by mikec1 on Nov 17, 2022 17:28:58 GMT
Good to hear Tom. It'll be interesting to hear your review. I'm looking into the TLCM pedals. Might splurge on those before a DD wheel.
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Post by tomlory on Nov 25, 2022 23:30:46 GMT
Update 2022-11-25 15:02 PST
My sim rig is fully converted to the LOGI G Pro direct drive wheel and Fanatec CSL ELite V2 pedals. I'll only talk about the Pro wheel here.
The packaging was nice, well thought out but has a couple foam blocks that are great for keeping forever but not so much for disposal.
It was shipped box within a box, regular brown cardboard outer and retail box within.
The two rear mounting points are the same as the G27 so I didn't have to do anything with those. I had to drill an additional hole for the front mounting point. Three mounting holes total, two are the same as the G27, one new one. I used 6mm x 1.00 pitch x 35mm shouldered bolts with a 1/4" SAE grade 8 washer and a 6mm fender washer for each. The mounting hole depth in the G Pro baseplate is 15mm.
Only two cables to the G Pro. One is USB for data, the other is DC power. I zip tied the power supply to my rig, same with the cables after I also had the pedals in place.
After power up, I had to install the Logitech G Hub software. It downloaded and installed firmware.
After that, the wheel was ready to use with iRacing.
I can't fathom how people use anything approaching 11 Nm. Mine's set to 5 Nm with the Strength in iRacing set to less than 10 with all the cars that I've tried. 11 Nm set on the wheel and a double digit Strength feel like hydraulic power steering with the engine turned off. Even at my seemingly low settings, the wheel snapped back so hard (before I increased the damper) correcting an oversteer that I had to let go of the wheel to avoid damaging my hand.
I evidently need to learn how the force settings are supposed to work. Maybe in-game force is minimum force and force at the wheel setting is maximum force.
The wheel rim itself is totally fine, feels good in hand and looks premium to me with the gunmetal anodization. I'm using an old pair of motocross/mountain bike gloves to keep my sweaty hands from damaging the leather. They might subdue the Trueforce when it's usable but if the gloves are truly a barrier, I can simply increase the Trueforce volume.
Unfortunately, I am experiencing a problem. When Trueforce is enabled, the wheel randomly and very violently rotates 90-180 degrees clockwise, then violently oscillates about 45 degrees. When it did it on the pit straight at Knockhill, it twanged my wrist despite me being leery of it. Turning Trueforce OFF in iRacing UI or down to zero on the wheel itself seems to eliminate the malady but turning it OFF seems to improve the force feedback versus being turned down.
I deleted the old Logitech Profiler and the iRacing app.ini file but those didn't fix it.
I reached Logitech support today, one phone call, zero hold time, ticket initiated, took maybe two minutes. I expect a response by Monday.
In the interim, I'll enjoy it with Trueforce OFF.
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Post by mikec1 on Nov 26, 2022 3:25:41 GMT
Nice Tom. Glad its looking good so far. I've read that you get way more information at the wheel. The smaller finer details are what make the difference. Can't wait to eventually get one.
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Post by mikec1 on Nov 26, 2022 16:56:29 GMT
What style did you get the wheel in, Xbox or playstation?
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Post by tomlory on Nov 26, 2022 21:18:45 GMT
I went with the Playstation version.
There might be something about the Playstation base working with the XBox version wheel on Xbox but not vice versa but I was mostly imagining that it wouldn't be impossible for me to some day get Gran Turismo which is of course Playstation.
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Post by tomlory on Dec 6, 2022 1:02:17 GMT
Made Boosted Media's 2022 Top 5:
Made Boosted Media's 2022 Top 5:
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Post by tomlory on Dec 6, 2022 7:11:24 GMT
I updated the Pros and Cons benefitting from owning the wheel for over a week.
Unfortunately, I am having a problem that seems to be tied to the Trueforce which has kept me from experiencing it to its potential. We don't know yet whether the problem is my wheel, the G Pro in general, iRacing or something else.
Technical support and customer service thus far have been great.
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Post by tomlory on Jan 9, 2023 10:24:52 GMT
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Post by tomlory on Jan 26, 2023 2:23:42 GMT
I'm going to keep it brief but I have an update.
My Logitech G Pro DD wheel has been a pleasure to use except that it malfunctions with iRacing in-game with random forceful clockwise rotations when Trueforce is enabled.
Even without Trueforce, I expect that is on par with or better for my use than every other DD wheel. I have the wheelbase set to 5 Nm and iRacing in-game to 11-15 "strength", less than 50% and maybe 30% or less of max, respectively so I can't fathom who can make use of a 11 Nm wheelbase never mind a 30 Nm one so, yeah, EVERY OTHER DD wheel.
Logitech tech support has been working with me to solve it since Day 1, sent me a new complete wheel that I received and started testing yesterday.
It took a little bit of lobbying from me which is understandable and fair and wasn't an inconvenience. Protocol apparently was for them to issue a call tag and for me to return my wheel for inspection and service which would have been unacceptable to me especially as I could have originally simply returned the wheel within 30 days for a full refund and bought a new one with less down time.
Unfortunately, #2 has the same malady. Statistically, it's virtually impossible for me to have received two defective wheelbases so this is either a widespread problem or something on my PC isn't getting along with the G Pro DD wheel.
I don't have another suitable PC that I can test with so I expect that I am going to be stuck for a bit. A new PC for me is on my want list but it's a low priority.
Stay tuned but so far EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE from Logitech.
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Post by tomlory on Jan 28, 2023 8:45:12 GMT
Tested the replacement wheel ("#2") with Assetto Corsa Competizione (ACC) and Trueforce (TF) enabled before switching back to #1.
#2 immediately exhibited the same malady as #1 to an even greater extent than I had previously experienced with limited testing with ACC. In the past, #1 had occasionally jerked the wheel a bit but not to the extent that I had experienced with iRacing but today it was as bad.
I can't explain it perfectly but after a restart of Steam and ACC including a Steam update, #2 and #1 worked seemingly normally with Trueforce enabled, aside from two small wheel movements in about 20 laps of testing. ACC is very entertaining with Trueforce enabled, the vibrations atop the force feedback and sounds are excellently immersive. I continue to have CTD issues with ACC but maybe coincidentally somehow ties into the G Pro wheelbase Trueforce issues as the normal wheel operation coincided with reliable ACC operation the last few runs.
To me, it seems like anyone whose primary sim is ACC would fall in love with the G Pro wheel with Trueforce enabled, it's outstanding even at TF base settings (assuming TF can be tuned).
I'm momentarily back to #1 which I have inkling isn't as good as #2 with what feels like rattling in the center much like my worn out G27. It's not mechanical sloppiness. I'm loath to keep swapping wheelbases but at some point I'm going to have to do a back to back test same car same track same session to confirm my intuitive feeling.
I am little annoyed with myself for the amount of time that I'm spending on this but I really want to be able to wholeheartedly recommend the G Pro to everyone.
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Post by mikec1 on Jan 28, 2023 21:22:43 GMT
Things seem to be looking up for you Tom. As for my connection issues, Removing the ice seems to have helped but I'm still getting the occasional disappearing of all cars although not as often. I wonder if there might a problem at the base where the signal is starting. I imagine & hope that when warm weather returns my connection will be back to normal. In Rocket League, I also sometimes get an alert with the connection as I'm playing. Packet loss. I've run traceroutes & notice the odd high ping here & there. Not much I can do about it on my end I think.
I will try a Dirt road race this evening & hopefully get through it unscathed. Maybe a Dallara race also as they don't count.
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Post by tomlory on Jan 21, 2024 5:32:07 GMT
Here I am about 13 months later, really happy with the Logitech G Pro wheel and would buy one again.
The D shaped rim has been a non-issue. I have no rim envy whatsoever. Good diameter, comfortable shape, rigid, nice leather, plenty of buttons, paddles plus dual analog paddles.
I rarely remove the rim but the QR remains solid.
I recently turned off all iRacing driver aids including Auto Clutch and have been making the quickest possible clutch required shifts with the paddle shifters and paddle clutch which I am certain has reduced my lap times because penalties for driver aids. It took a couple of weeks to get used to it. Added bonus is that I've mostly been cured of cracking the throttle under braking and turn in because without Aids, many of the cars won't downshift.
I gifted myself a Buttkicker for Christmas 2023 so I'm not missing the Logitech Trueforce but I did prove that the Trueforce-only problem was somehow due to my PC as the wheel works fine with a newer PC that was born with and still has WIN10. I think that the free upgrade from WIN7 to WIN10 caused the problems with my race PC. To be safe, I would avoid an upgrade between Windows OS, fresh install only, albeit the wheel was totally fine with Trueforce turned off.
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Post by mikec1 on Jan 23, 2024 2:26:37 GMT
I just ordered a G Pro today. Finally bit the bullet. I've been contemplating it for a while now. I read Moza is good but ffb isn't on par with Logitech. Same with Thrustmaster's 818. Simagic was tempting but hard to find in these parts plus I read they can be finnicky with some games. Here's hoping I made the right decision. DD is supposed to really bring out track & car info that is not picked up with cheaper wheels, as in my perfectly fine and beloved G27. I'll keep it in storage if something happens. Hurry up Friday!
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